The Bonhoeffer 4

Do you think Jesus was a peacemaker when he threw over tables in the temple, and called the religious leaders of his day “white washed tombs”?

What of the freedom that has been achieved for the afghanis from the religious oppression by the Taliban? The war against the afghanistani Islamic extremists is not a war of aggression. It is a defensive war in response to the first action on September 11. Iraq is hard to defend.

The position put forward here seems to be a pacifist one, while Bonhoeffer was more of a realist in opposing evil where it existed. The Nazis would not fall over without opposition, and likewise we need to oppose the religious intolerance and restrictions of Islamism in our day.

I agree, pacifism is all good and well, it just doesn’t always work out in the real world. Sometimes the captives need to be released. Sometimes the oppressed need to be freed- and sadly…sometimes this takes force. But I know this, if either of my little daughters (4 months & 6 yrs old) were kidnapped by a convicted pedophile rapist & murderer, I would hope that someone who was willing to save them wouldn’t be a pacifist in that moment-

I agree that an unjust war is horrible. Im not defending any particular war, Im just questioning a pacifism that is fundamentalist and unwavering in its ideology. It is possible that violence may sometimes be necessary in order to avoid a greater conflict in which more lives would be lost. War, violence, and pacifism are complex topics and I hope emergent village is a “safe place” to ask questions about these issues. I do not believe there is one, simple, “christian” position when it comes to this, but I could be wrong… who knows?

I think the teaching and example of Jesus challenge us to wrestle with this question: How should disciples oppose evil?

Jesus taught nonviolent enemy-love in the Sermon on the Mount; he then practiced what he preached on the cross, suffering violence for his enemies rather than inflicting violence against his enemies. And his enemies included us (Romans 5:8-10). The Romans used the cross to torture; Jesus responded with reconciliation—peacemaking.

Opposing evil using the same means (namely, violence) as evildoers seems not to witness to Christ or his peaceable kingdom. Of course, doing nothing also fails as witness. But the notion that the only two options are lethal force and doing nothing is a false dichotomy. Jesus resisted evil, but he did so non-violently. (There is no indication in the biblical texts that he did physical harm to people when he overturned tables and scattered livestock—much less that he killed anyone; my takeaway from the story in question is that overturning tables and scattering livestock is sometimes justified.) Walter Wink has summarized the approach of Jesus well: “Do not react violently to evil, do not counter evil in kind, do not let evil dictate the terms of your opposition, do not let violence lead you to mirror your opponent…. Jesus, in short, abhors both passivity and violence.”

According to Christian tradition (dating to Augustine in the fifth century), one of the many criterion for evaluating whether violence is justified (a necessary evil) is that of “last resort.” Bonhoeffer undoubtedly knew as much, and he exhausted non-violent alternatives in his admirable resistance to Hitler before resorting to participation in an assassination attempt—an attempt that turned out to be ill-conceived. Bonhoeffer might best be described as a pacifist who made an exception to his rule.

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are just two of the most recent violent conflicts that fallen humans were not creative enough to avoid. Were there less destructive alternatives? The debate will continue; but with every passing day that these two wars continue to rage, they become more questionable. In any case, it seems to me the question of when the state is justified in using lethal force is a secondary one for those of us who strive to be disciples of Jesus Christ. It seems to me the primary question for Jesus-followers is whether they should participate in violence.

Ann: This “violent” Jesus looks more like Bakunin than “Preventive war”. So, if christian pacifism is wrong, the traditional christian warmongering has been FAR worse.

Andrew: How paradoxical, those talibans were armed by the USA in the 80’s. Off course, I condemn the 9/11 attacks, as well as the taliban regime itself, but I don’t think the war has really brought much freedom, in contrast with the supposed military success.

Daniel Robertson: Good points. It resonates when we christians condemn women who commit abortion, even those who do it for extreme circunstances. So, in the case of a extreme circunstance we would be able to accept aortion? It’s quite like your example. Jesus gave us the Sermon on the mount, but I wouldn’t confront anyone who used force against someone who was about to comit a homicide (this would be very hipocrital of me).

BTW, your example of the rapist/kidnapper reminds me an essay written by a mennonite friend who, despite his fierce opposition to mennonite participation in police (trying to extend it to christians in general) and his rabid criticism of this institution (police), admited he would call police if he witnessed someone kidnapping a kid (he said in those cases it is very probable the kidnapper would kill the kid).

Rom 12:8 As much as possible live in peace with all men; 1 Cor 2:15 The spiritual man judges all things; Prov 28:4 They that keep the law contend with the wicked. The truth here is that wickedness and evil will prosper when good men do nothing. We are called to contend with the wicked and sometimes that means war.

Ann:

As I commented earlier, the argument that the only options when facing “the wicked” are doing nothing or waging war is a false dichotomy. We cannot escape wickedness; and sometimes “the wicked” are us. As Alexander Solzhenitsyn put it: “If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.” Perhaps he had in mind the words of Paul: ”[A]ll have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

None of the verses you have quoted advocate war.