Questioning God

Jacob’s wrestling, Abraham’s debating, and the image of God as a teacher who encourages debate are all consistent with the Jewish understanding of God that is captured in the Talmudic disputations of the rabbis. They believe that if one can make a convincing case about something, then even God is bound to listen. Another image for this would be Moses’ intercession on behalf of the Israelites which causes God to re(l/p)ent.

It is for the kinds of reasons that you explore here that Levinas insists upon understanding the Bible through the lens of the Talmud. Without the Talmud, religion is in danger of degenerating into mere enthusiasm. For Levinas this is to lose the essence of Judaism with its rigorous responsibilities which are laid out in the law and the demand for holiness.

Of course, when we emphasize the Abraham who haggles with God over Sodom and Gomorah, it is hard to make sense of the Abraham who keeps silent and is obedient in the face of the command to sacrifice Isaac.

I just finished reading both Julie’s blog and Todd’s comment, and several different things caught my attention.

I found it most interesting the way God was described in both of the comments. First, God is definately not an impersonal master that we must submit to and obey. However, He is our master that we should submit to and obey. Nothing about God is impersonal, he loves us soo much that He sent his only blameless, perfect Son to die for us (1 John 4:10). I don’t know what that sounds like to you, but it is definately not impersonal.

There was one thing I was super confused on. I was very confused as to how the Talmud was related to the Bible. I understand it was a jewish book, but… I was also confused as to where in the Bible Moses’ intervention caused God to repent. I am 99.99% sure that no one in the whole entire world ever caused God to repent, nor will they ever. (However, I would love to know the reference if you have it:)

As to questioning God: Bottom line God is God,and no matter what we would like to think he does not need any human on earth to help Him, because He is God and can do whatever He wants. It is great to question what you believe and why, but when it comes down to it God will never be wrong.

I understand that this may sound very harsh, but all of my opinions are based straight out of the Bible. And “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.”

Thanks Guys

Here’s a piece on Questioning that I wrote recently ‘Questions are like doors’ –

http://engagesheffield.blogspot.com/2008/06/questions-are-like-doors.html

It seams that God calls us to question, to seek not for his own benefit (as if he needs anything from us or loves to act as the ego boy know it all who can always trump our view – though I meet a good few like that in Christian circles) but for our own creaturely good, growth and fruitfulness. He seems to call out from us our genuine selves (rather than the personas that playing simple answers breeds) when he engages us in sometimes playful and sometimes fearful dialogue. He even appears in the stories of scripture and perhaps in my life to really dialogue and end up being or doing something different to what I understood at the start. Bottom line – as ever, it would seem to be the ongoing conversation and encounter that changes us not simply a static answer. He is a living God, a risen available present Jesus and surely that is better – even though he can be a little elusive, hard to pin down and predict at times!

Oh and big up Pete Rollins he is wonderfully and comfortingly disturbing on this stuff

What are specific examples of how you question God?

When I question a teacher, my questions take one of two forms:
1) What do you mean by that?
2) Are you sure that’s correct?

So my questions are to gain clarity on what was taught or to suggest the material does not meet with reality as I’ve experienced it (maybe there was a mistake or maybe it’s just plain wrong). I get the impression though, that this is not what people mean when they say they ‘question God’. So again, what does it mean to say someone is questioning God?

To Allison

The “Bible” we quote includes the “Tanak” -the Torah, Prophets and Writings” The “Talmud and Mishna” are in my over simpified description are commentaries on these writings, laws and daily practices over 2000 years.
The interesting aspect of these writings is the format of open discussion by the leading scholars of their day,a routine almost banned in our 100 % ‘right” solution today.

Your quote from Timothy on the Bible being inspired is obviously true as long as we don’t forget that
a) Inspired does not mean dictated
b) When Paul wrote this the “New Testament”, as we know it did NOT exist. He was refering to his scripture-our old testament.We extrapolated the verse to cover all the books of the bible.
By gaining knowledge of the Tanak and its historical context, we can better see the richness of the “new books”

Hi

Follow up to my Bible comments, I would suggest reading “Fabricating Jesus” by Craig Evans . He is not only one of the top Evangelical scholars in the world, but an expert on the Jewish context and culture which influences all references in the bible. NT Wright is also another top scholar to read.
Sadly today, we quote the bible often, but have idea of how we got what we have and it’s true context.
Enjoy

Job is an interesting example to me, because I have never interpreted it as discouraging questioning. The rationalizations his friends gave him sounded reasonable, but were insufficient. Job questioned God, but was able to accept God’s response (which wasn’t an answer, but was His presence and a reminder of His and Job’s relationship). In the end, Job, who questioned, had a deeper relationship with God than his friends (who wouldn’t question God). Job met and conversed with God, as a result his faith was strengthened and he knew himself and God better. When I was going through a really hard time I actually was comforted by that aspect of Job. When I felt free to express my lack of understanding with God, I did feel like I was met with and answered with God’s presence and it strengthened my relationship with Him.

I believe questioning is appropriate when you really believe God has a response and are seeking that. We may have to, like Job, afterwards re-affirm our position in relationship with God, but in the end I would much rather be Job than his unquestioning friends.

Hi

I agree with your comments about Job. Blind acceptance of practice or doctrine provides no value to the individual or their group. It ends of being a constant review of a checklist to make sure that we said or did the “right” thing vs true worship and honest questions as we seek God’s will.

Hi

For honest feelings and questions, the best example to me , besides Job , is the Psalms

Here is a man “after God’s own heart” and we have about every emotion, fear, doubt and question going.We then read Psalm 23 and 24, see who he looks to and knows who is in charge.

Hi Allison!

The idea of God repenting is certainly a strange one! That’s mainly because our idea of God is not really very biblical. Check out these verses:

Genesis 6:6
Exodus 32:14
Deuteronomy 32:36
1 Samuel 15:11
1 Samuel 15:35
2 Samuel 24:16
1 Chronicles 21:15
Isaiah 38:1-5
Jeremiah 15:6
Jeremaih 18:8
Jeremaih 26:3
Jeremiah 26:13
Jeremiah 26:19
Jeremaih 42:10
Amos 7:3, 6
Jonah 3:10

Weird, huh?

The verse I had in mind when I brought up the example with Moses is found in Exodus 32:9-14.

What I find interesting (but also maddening) about our relationship with God is that we cannot even be sure whether we should obey God or question Him from the biblical precedents. They are not univocal (Simon – thanks for the list by the way). We have examples of those who question God and argue with Him – Abraham, Moses, Job, the Psalmist, perhaps some of the prophets – as well as those who are expected to simply obey (a list which would include most of the same people).

The rhetoric of questioning God is a good reminder for those who have forgotten that God expects us to exercise our conscience in fulfilling the responsibilities that come from being in relationship with Him. But it can also be overemphasized, which displaces the role of obedience in the life of faith.

Hi all,

Just curious, what’s the downside to fanaticism? It might sound crazy, and it does for even as I type this, something inside me says that blind, unquestioning faith is somehow not ideal compared to the wrestling with God kind.

But all the same, let’s just play with the idea a moment. If I happen to be in a faith system that is 100% perfect or at least doesn’t hurt anyone etc., what is the downside to acceptance of that faith w/o a single question? Why is wrestling faith better faith? Is Thomas better than John?

Now myself, I’m a wrestling type (Psalms 13, 22, 42, 51 etc.) and my relationship with God runs the gamut of emotions and attitudes. But I’m just wondering, would I be better off to be a complete fanatic?