Meet Cláudio Oliver on TheOoze.TV

Ok, shane’s a great guy. But shouldn’t Shane be called the American Claudio Oliver?

I’d like to suggest that we put a moratorium on calling anyone the Australian Shane Claiborne, the British Shane Claiborne, the Black Shane Claiborne, the female Shane Claiborne, the fat Minneapolis Shane Claiborne, the Latino Shane Claiborne etc. ;)

I wholeheartly agree with Mark.

While I do not think it was done purposefully to be offensive, this misjudgement perpetuate hideous colonial discourse, no matter who started the comment and who keep spreading it around.

Right on, Eliacin (and Mark). I’m sure it wasn’t done intentionally, but that sort of description definitely doesn’t help dismantle our tacit deference to Western domination.

Wow, “hideous colonial discourse”? OK. I think Nelson and the folks at Igreja Emergente were simply attempting (in 140 characters) to introduce a relatively unknown Brazilian church leader to a largely western audience. But your point is well taken. I certainly don’t want to be guilty of “tacit deference to Western domination.” I repent.

Yeah Steve, I get that. Didn’t mean to be too harsh. I just want to be careful and make sure we watch our language, especially given our history.

It’s a good word, Blake. I receive it with sincere humility. I appreciate the accountability. I thought the comment was innocuous, honestly, coming from Nelson @IgrejaEmergente. But I hear and receive the pushback with appreciation and real regret for posting it as it was originally.

Steve,

I can’t speak from the friends from La igreja Emergente.

I speak from my perception and experience as someone who is interested full embrace and mutual transformation from a post-colonial perspective. It is not just people of the North/West who misjudge and abuse in their representations. We of the South need to be intentional in moving our speaking and thinking frameworks into autochtonous models after years of baggage from past colonization and the contemporary force with of neo-colonization, in which religion still play a key role.

Amen, Eliacin. I can’t wait to meet you in D.C. on Friday! I look forward to continuing this conversation then.

Hey everybody!
This is Nelson from Igreja Emergente, I’m sorry to call Claudio “Brazilian Claiborne” divinely, was my fault. I was trying to share about his work in little words, for the Western culture, using an American example !
It’s no going to happen again!!!
Love’all

Nelson Costa.

Everybody needs to chill!! People are to uptight. Hideous colonial discourse? Come down abit will u? It was just a connection point for people to relate to. Emergent village should be a place where we can talk without having to worry about being so politically correct. Come on people, don’t jump on Steve for something he didn’t even do! Peace
Dan (the alabamian Jon Doe)

Good Stuff!

Thanks!

Gotta love a man whose doctoral dissertation was on Tolstoy, Ivan Illich and Paulo Freire!!!!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1088925//

Ok, first off: Eliacin didn’t call this a “hideous colonial discourse.” He said it perpetuates it.

Secondly, nobody jumped on Steve. The criticisms were with the language used, regardless of the author.

Third, I don’t think it is fair or helpful to dismiss something as being simply politically correct. It goes a bit beyond that, and you should seek to understand before you dismiss.

I’m so sorry. I understand what u mean by post colonial. I just find it ironic because the comment came from someone who wasn’t American so all that talk wasn’t even necassary. Also I felt that it showed the sad reality of how trivial and petty and narrow the emergent conversation can be when it’s at it’s worst. I understand that you want change but things don’t happen overnight. Let’s let Christs love unite us. Not the fact that we don’t use “colonial” language or whatever the flavor of the month seems to be:). I don’t mean any disrespect-I’m just adding my voice to the “conversation” isn’t that what it’s all about? By the way I still think it was political correctness at the heart of the issue. Peace out!

What did you think of what Claudio said and what the community is doing? The whole point of traveling down to hear, see, experience and bring back this interview was for us to listen to Claudio “his own words” and “in his own environment”.

Interesting that either way you approach the old conversation (what is happening in the above comments) “westerness” still wins.

Please listen to the interview and let’s create a new conversation here…

Claudio and the center of community is a refreshing, beautiful and REAL expression of the Church. I know when I stop talking and begin to listen, my world is always subverted by Love…

The beauty of a public forum is that people get the chance to comment and respond. Sometimes, I think, we get awfully focused on what we are caring about at the moment. An interesting article about this was written about Stephen Colbert, btw: http://www.miller-mccune.com/politics/the-truthiness-of-the-colbert-report-1156.

For me, I think we overuse the schema that involves a belief that we do things to be “politically correct”. In church speak, this is akin to orthopraxy mixed with orthodoxy. For me 1) political correctness in the pajoritive sense hasn’t been practiced in decades, and 2) what’s the real harm with being careful and gracious?

I see this as a simple misunderstanding. It is made even better that apologies and clarifications of intent were made. Now the discussion can shift toward matters of politics! I think some of us would rather have that conversation anyway…

Drew, good words.

It is amazing what faithfulness paired with resourcefulness can create. What would happen if every household, every community approached “holiness” this way? So much of what plagues the church in our society is a lack of imagination…not the imagination to make things more artistic or more palatable to the typcial churchgoaer, but the imagination to create alternatives…to create new ways of living life, new ways of approaching seemingly entrenched problems, etc.

Friends,
Greetings from a Brazilian-Canadian,

http://globemerging.pbwiki.com/

“A place of conversation on subjects such as Christianity and church from a global perspective. A place of dialog between South, North, East and West.”

You are all welcome to register your blogs / feeds.

A friend of Emergent Village.

Regards,

spencer- I agree. I think it’s awesome that he is making something useful out of something hazardous. That’s the gospel to him & that’s good. I also agree that westerness still wins if were being tthe language police. I mean who would be offended for being compared to shane Claiborne? Black, white, male, female, Canadian, Brazilian, Chinese, or otherwise? Isn’t it odd that that’s the first thing people critique when it wasn’t written by the “typical colonial tyrant”? I don’t get it, I still think people need to chill. If we all were like claudio it would be sweet. I wish the best to all the emergenc community & I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I’m gonna go study my post colonial theory now;)

C’mon people…language police? You should seek to understand before you dismiss someone’s concerns. Westernness still wins? What the heck does that mean? So how does Eliacin’s strong challenge above result in westernness winning?

mark- the truth is I probably don’t understand. Seriously, fill me in cause I’m lost. What do I need to understand?

Hey Daniel,

Let me first say that my goal in my initial statement wasn’t to be harsh or be language police. Eliacin’s comment raised the stakes, and I understand and support his reasons for saying that the original title of this post supports all sorts of imperial and racist patterns of thought. I want to briefly highlight one reason for this:

In our society we set white attributes as the cultural norm. It is subtle a way of maintaining white supremacy. A good example of this is recent lists of the “25 most influential pastors in America.” All but a few are usually white, and mostly male. Even though white Christianity is no longer globally dominant, and BARELY dominant in the US, we still consider white Christianity the global norm…and our cultural norm. So, when Shane Claiborne is exalted as the paragon of radicalism and all others, particularly of other ethnic groups or nationalities, are compared to him, it communicates something.

Here’s an important question: WHY is Shane lifted up as a paragon of virtue?

Is it really because he is the most virtuous? Or is it because he is a virtuous example of a downwardly mobile middle class white male? It is good for white US males to identify in Shane someone worthy of emulation. However, when we set him up as a global standard, it can be seen as a form of cultural imperialism.

Shane is seen as a model not only because of his virtue, but also because he is someone from the dominant race, class, gender, and religious system of the United States. When referring to exemplars of other cultures and nations and genders, it is subtly dismissive of them to compare them with Shane.

Furthermore, even apart from the issues of race and culture, I find it unhelpful for folks to be compared to more famous folks anyways. If anything, let us only be compared to Jesus. It isn’t really serving any purpose to have our imaginations captivated by celebrity. The easiest way to dismiss the radical message of the dead is to make them into saints. And the easies way to dismiss the radical message of the living is to make them into celebrities. Saints and celebrities are seen as extraordinary, rather than real people whose example we can also follow.

mark- thanks for the clarification. To be honest, I hadn’t thought about if that way. That’s what I love about a forum like this. Someone posts something and then someone responds with some pushback. Then I find myself pressing them for more clarification. Only because it’s a conversation do I ever learn much. I like that. So much of christianitys past has been didactic, one way, forceful communication. Emergent has been a safe place for me to converse and think through my theology. I guess I get a bit testy when I suspect someone is trying to control the conversation but now I see that isn’t your intention. Thanks for the patience and understanding. This is an important issue to me because I live in birmingham Alabama. The racial tension is strong here although many would have u believe otherwise. Sorry if I came across as an ass. I’ve been reading Slavoj Zizek lately and he has a bent towards harsh language. Alot of what he says is so much more controversial than “the Brazilian shane claiborne” & I feel some of his ideas would benefit our emerging convo. I guess I just wasn’t offended in the least & I felt we had more important things to worry about. But your right, language is important and what we say matters. Thanks for the dialogue:)

Hey Daniel, no problem. Sorry if I came off like the language police. That wasn’t my goal here…I just wanted to raise deeper questions. I feel a bit like a schmuck for taking the focus off of Claudio…the more we can listen to voices outside of the US, the better off we’ll be.

By the way, I might be coming down to Birmingham this summer or early Fall to connect with folks interested in intentional community and radical Christianity…maybe we can connect?

Yes, I’d love to meet up with u when your down south. I hang with some friends from the cohort and there are some great folks dabbling with some new ideas down here. Right now I’m sitting in the labor/delivery room with my pregnant wife. Our 2nd daughter will be born today! Her name is Maya Jane:). Maybe we can get together when your around. My family and friends are definitely interested in what your talking about. What are your plans when ur in town?

Amazing. This is not only a metaphor for redemption and re-creation, it is a genuine act of holistic redemption.

I’m convinced these kinds of examples flow way more abundantly out of Latin America than they do from the USA.

All the more reason we need to shift from our Imperial ways of seeing things, look to the margins for the voices of the Kingdom.

HI There! Someone send me to this website, probably because is the first time my name appears so many times in a discussion. I would be glad if anyone wanting to be practical would be wanting to learn simple things like making soap to start good conversation, co-inspiration, co-laboration. The best way to change to world is when we stop thinking global and start acting locally. Wendell Berry can help us in this way. more conversation if any one desire… no more space here for not make this a longer message. Love