Keller to Emerging Church: "Settle Down"

Amen!

But the questions then come about how it might even be possible to avoid becoming just another subgroup…

if it’s a movement of the holy spirit, shouldn’t that take care of itself?

Being grouped by others seems inevitable; particularly those feeling threatened this. To maintain dialogue and urge individuals to move beyond categorization is what we should continue to do.

Hi guys! Interesting post. I have a couple of thoughts in response.

1. What got me here in the first place was that title (“Wow,” I thought, “Keller actually ripped the emerging guys!”) That was from the ‘settle down’ part of the title – it’s definitely catchy, but I also think it kind of miscommunicates the tone of what Keller was saying. I don’t think he’s a crochety old geezer saying “pipe down boys!” Instead, I think he’s saying (pretty respectfully), “Emerging folks out to I realize they have a lot in common w/ a particular tradition from the past”. I realize this may sound trivial. But trivial things can kill dialogue (especially when they come across as pejorative). Food for thought.

2. As for the content of what Keller is saying, I think there’s some merit. How many emerging folks have actually studied enough church history to really even evaluate Keller’s statement? Most of us probably don’t really know what the Anabaptist movement is (or isn’t). Heck, most of us barely know what we ourselves believe ;-) We could all probably benefit from paying a little more attention to our church history.

3. One of the things that rubs me about emerging folks – it seems like for many, the main attraction is that it’s new! it’s cutting edge! it’s counter-cultural! it’s a movement! Maybe I’m jaded, but it just sounds so… Americanized to me. Like just another marketing opp.

Shouldn’t we want to be around something simply because it’s beautiful, real, authentic, and true – whether it’s new or ancient, whether it’s a movement or a blip?

How many emergings would be a whole lot less excited if the movement turns out to be a re-run? Or if it doesn’t end up being a movement at all?

4. Having said all that (and probably sounding pretty anti-emerging in the process, which I’m really not), I actually disagree with Keller on the whole. I think there is something new going on, and I don’t think it’s simply a renewed Anabaptist impulse (although that element is certainly there). I actually think it’s bigger than the church, something that affects both believers and unbelievers alike.

I think it’s fundamentally the result of a cultural shift from modernism to postmodernism. And I think that shift creates some great opportunities for the Spirit to draw unbelievers to faith in Jesus.

I see that not so much as a result of the emerging movement per se (which I actually think is much more stratified than many emergings want to admit – cf. Mark Driscoll’s take on the movement), as a result of the culture actually moving in a direction of a value realignment that happens to coincide w/ what God values, and to present a lot of opportunities to talk about God’s gospel.

Fundamentally, I think our hope needs to be in the gospel, not in the emerging movement (or even in postmodernism). And Keller would probably agree with that.

I agree with Christian Cryder that the title seems to overstate Keller’s point as almost a divisive provocation. Respectful dialogue suggests that we put our fighting words aside. There is a place for extreme language to test the boundaries of an idea. I prefer that it not be used however to encourage people to take sides.

Hey Christian and Scott,

I wasn’t trying to be “divisive” or start a “fight” with this blog post title. I was simply trying to be a little playful and humorous—and grab people’s attention a little bit. I wouldn’t have blogged about it at all, if I didn’t think Tim Keller has good things to say. (I think he usually does.) I also think Mike Clawson’s response was worth reading and considering as well.

I appreciate the thoughtful critique and pushback, though. I’ll definitely take that into consideration for future posts.

Shalom,
Steve K.

When society ‘shifts’ its values to mimic God, it is still evil, since they do it in evil motives. I say “in” since they are still dead in their sins, so they aren’t pleasing God. Of course, emergents throw out original sin (I’m sorry, are “questioning” it [no really, it’s totally different than just throwing it out!]).
As far as the “settle down” question, the emergent movement is just old mainline liberalism that sweeps more old ladys’ driveways, just crank up an Episcopalian Church with a good band!
It would be better than the Charismatic tactic of infiltrating bible believing churches and splitting them up. The similarities are very close, in that both groups disdain original Holy Spirit truth (the Bible) and value only new revelation or spirit leadings. They both thwart absolutes and promulgate existential relativity, but the emergents don’t speak in tongues (as much). I like the idea of staying out of my churches, please. We still likes the Word of God round these parts.

I’m with you Frickfricker! And your name…is it from the epidsode in the Dick and Jane reading series where they followed the puppy into the fish pond? Actually, that pictures my prayer for the emergent church followers: if you have to follow the wandering path of a sniffing pup instead of the easy-to-follow lit path of the truth God gave, may it take you to the Living Water, and make you a true fisher of men! Yapping at your own reflection and scaring away the fish draws a crowd, but everyone goes away hungry. And by the way, God did not “maintain dialogue” with Peter when he spouted nonsense. Peter praised himself then stated his plan. He thought it was good he was there to build three tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration. God cut him off to say listen to My Son, Jesus. (Matthew 17) “Holy Spirit truth” is what empowers this “old lady” to joyfully be a bold and faithful servant to her Master. Got milk? Great. Now go eat the meat. (Hebrews 5) “You can’t have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat” and pure milk makes the sweetest pudding.

My name is just a nickname from calling into the radio. It is nice and insinuative and short, provocative and funny:) Hard to find a good name for websites these days!
By the way, speaking of God not “maintaining dialogue” think about what he called the Pharisees: Hypocrites, vipers, open graves; think about him whipping out the folks turning His Temple into a Christian Bookstore! No loving give and take, no learning from the religious leaders of another faith. Wham! You are wrong and going to hell, and that makes me sad and angry. Why not act like THAT Jesus? I sometimes think that the Emergent Jesus is a pop singing cross dresser!

I’m an Elder in a 750 member congregation of the Church of Christ. We’ve been down this road before 200 years ago and a look at what happened to our “emerging conversation” could help us avoid making the same mistakes again. Our pioneer preachers, Campbell, Stone, etc. called for all Christians to come out of the “sects” and just be Christians. This met with tremendous success for a decade or two, but soon crystalized into another sect which has split into about 16 others at last count. What I am trying to suggest is avoid affiliation with any subgroup and be content with the leadership of Jesus and His Spirit. Believe me, I know this is easier said than done, but division has been the major tool used by Satan since the 1st century. May God bless you in all efforts to follow Him

Carlin Brooks

I just found your site and your movement, even though I feel I was in ‘the movement’ already. I am sorry to see that there is already talk of making a separate sect. That was the mistake the Society of Friends made the last time ‘Christ came to teach his people himself”. Be careful not to quench the spirit by making a man made sect out of a real awakening. It would rob others of the freedom of the spirit and take the life out of it. The voices in the wilderness are much more powerful that the voices of people in a man made steeplehouse..

This is some interesting stuff. I particularly resonate with the comment about this going above and beyond denomination or sect- because it’s interesting that there are a lot of the “emerging” ideals across the entire faith spectrum- there’s even a group calling themselves “postmodern mormons.” It’s very interesting to take a step back and see how all of this is starting to (to steal a quote from the post) emerge across the map, and converge all together. I think God is certainly working through this all. It’s a pretty exciting time.

Isn’t it interesting how all the modernist thinkers such frickfricker and Carlin Brooks get on here and prove the points of the post-modernist thinkers? Trying to argue with them is about like a dog chasing its tale. Modernists believe only what they have been told to believe. I think you call that brainwashing.

Postmodern Mormons? What next, the postmodern Christian Scientist? Post modern Wiccans? Where does it all end?!

Jason, that’s exactly the kind of disdain that drives so many to equate emergent with self-important liberals who conceive of themselves as the only real “thinkers” in all of Christendom.
(and, ironically, categorizing people according to the criteria “modern” and “postmodern” is an essentially modernist impulse.)

Great conversation. I am convinced that the more I try to have the right answers, and the right truth…God continually shows up with a gentle reminder that he is bigger than me. I have to trust in what he is teaching me and all of that comes from a heart of love, compassion and BEING that in front of people. We should all be emerging in every area of our life. So as far as the original contribution we are commenting on, I agree that we should be the glue, and watch God bring together a beautiful tapistry.

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” What worldview of what people group of what age will give me the true meaning of that?

No matter how much you discuss your personal ideas about what is a Christian or who God is it doesn’t change God into what you believe He is.Who He is and will never change no matter how His Word the Bible is twisted and perverted by wolves in sheeps clothing like the ones who follow Emergent. May God in Christ have mercy on you all.