5 Things We Got Right in the Emerging Missional Church

Thanks,

“Some see this as leaving tradition. Others see this as returning to the original ways. The emotions of this are deeply stressful, giving some the feelings that resemble a refugee. But we’re just trying to discover the very thing that history has revealed changed the world and make it real for us. Does that make us dreamers, or idealists, or fools when we say things are not as they were, nor as they could be? We’re just choosing to take the risk to find out which one.”

Oh my… yes.

Jonathan – Thanks for this. Thanks for echoing some things that make the emergent conversation/movement/community so dear to my heart. I honestly felt like crying when I read the post because it made me remember how lonely and confused I felt before I discovered the emergent community. -Liz

@Liz – Much love to you too.

I have only read a limited amount of material on the “emergent” ideas and thoughts, but it seems to me that truth can and will be sacrificed if it interferes with “love”.
You cannot pick and choose which portions of the Bible you agree with and ignore the rest. God has other attributes that are equal to love.
If you are going to focus mostly on Jesus and His teachings, there is some heavy duty theology and doctrinal issues He spends time explaining that have to be accepted along with “love” whether we like them or not.

Pat, all I would say in response is that love is truth. All the law and theology was wrapped up in the Great commandment, which was to love.

Pat
“You cannot pick and choose which portions of the Bible you agree with and ignore the rest.”

Isn’t that what Augustine did when he created the Canon in 393, picking some books and rejecting others?

Isn’t that what Luther did when created and hived off the apocrypha in 1534 (which had been canonical for 1200 years) at the Reformation?

Isn’t that what Jesus did when he said “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person…”?

Truth as static, unchanging and and unchallanged is not in my view a way of thinking found in the Biblical Narrative itself.

I understand if this sounds strange, and you seem to have a deep commitment to truth.

But examining how we approach what is true does not mean we are turning away from God, indeed, I think quite the opposite. Like Jacob, we wrestle until blessed.

Pat,

It is dishonest to believe none of us have a canon within a canon. Every last Christian that has walked the face of the earth focused on some books, chapters, and verse more than others. If you do an honest inventory, what you read in your devotions, studies, etc, do you actually read the whole thing?

Nic-

Augustine created the canon?

Have you ever heard of the Muratorian Canon of 190 A.D.? This is named after L.A. Muratori, who discovered it and published it in 1740. It includes all four gospels, Acts, Paul’s letters of Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, James, 1 & 2 John, Jude and Revelation.

By 250 A.D., we find that Origen validated the use of all of these books and included 1 Peter.

What we find if we study Church history is an overwhelming agreement in the 1st and 2nd century as to which books were considered to be inspired and which were not.

Eric-

You said:
“It is dishonest to believe none of us have a canon within a canon. Every last Christian that has walked the face of the earth focused on some books, chapters, and verse more than others.”

Just because I may “focus” on a book or passage does not necessitate the negating of all others. I hold the Bible to be completely inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16, Psalm 199:160).

Grace and peace,

Hi Rick
You are correct in implying there is more than one canon.

What I mean is that Augustine presided over the form we have today. To quote wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Latin_Fathers)

“The African Synod of Hippo, in 393, approved the New Testament, as it stands today … under the authority of St. Augustine, who regarded the canon as already closed”

I do not dispute the consensus of the 1st and 2nd Century. Neither to I dispute the plentiful Inspiration of the Spirit in the scriptures. The point I am making is that canons are relative. I would dispute only one of your words: “completely”.

Nic-
You said:
“I would dispute only one of your words: ‘completely’.”

How so?

Hi again Rick
I don’t think it necessary to view what Eric said as meaning something so polar: focus on one book = negation of all others. Focus is relative, if you hone in on something other things gradually diminsh in importance, they don’t immediately become unimportant.

So to use the term “completely inspired by God”, while demonstrating an admirable zeal (and I’m not being fascetious at all) comes into territory where we are no longer allowed to think critically about it, or to focus on aspects of it, or even reject aspects of it. A Commitment To An Honest Theology was point 2 of the post.

If it’s EITHER the absolute total and full word of God, or its NOT, then this leaves no space for doubt, and therefore no space for honesty, and is an approach that is frankly doomed to failure, in my opinion.

You may say – there he goes, holding up doubt to be a virtue – but for me, true faith cannot exist without it. The type of faith that needs total unambiguous buyin to certainty is a false and non-biblical pseudo-faith.

The Bible cannot be the “complete” Word of God, because as many preachers have repeatedly said, “God is bigger than a book.”

I hope I have addressed your actual question, rather than ramming a whole lot of unnecessary thought into the pipeline…

Nic-

Thank you for your honesty.

How do you see the Bible?
What place does it have in your life and ministry?

Rick
The Bible is inspired and it is central to “ministry”.

What convinces me about it is not its logical assertions or even its historicity, but rather its poetic depth.

When I read the parables of Jesus, for instance, there is a genius there that I can only ascribe to G-d.

And in an overarching sense, as a narrative, and a basis for a cosmology, it is beyond compare. I read and enjoy many myths and the biblical ones make most sense to me.

But at the same time, the bible is a book, but rather a library that has been assembled, curated and messed with by humans. But lucky us, that is exactly how the Incarnate G-d operates – through mankind, despite our obvious infalliblity.

I meant to say “the bible is NOT a book”, meaning we shouldn’t read it a single, completed, and unambiguous document.

Nic-

Thank you for taking the time to explain your view. I appreciate it.

Grace and peace,

I would just like to add if your going to argue church history quoting wickapedia is not the best route. I would rather hear from more primary or secondary sources.
Like many things theological in the first through third centuries that has been passed on to us, the canon was birthed by the wide spread usage and acceptance of many of the leaders of that time. We have by the second century an established canon that consists of the books we have today. Constantine and Nicea did not decide the canon. As already pointed out it was already accepted and other issues were discussed. The canon was birthed out of community, where people circulated and used the books we have and then were disscussed whether or not they were of apostolic authorship or written by associates of the apostles. The closer the writing to the apostles the more likely it was to make it. Thats why they disputed the book of Hebrews and 1 Peter and Revelation. They finally came to the conclusion that they were written by an apostle or associate. It was not preference. It was an effort to preserve the theology and teachings of the apostles and the words and deeds of Jesus before all the witnesses were dead.

Jonathan, thank you for this post. I just used your Mark Twain quote for my Facebook status, as I am taking a lot of heat over emergent issues right now. But this conversation must be had in this time and in this place. My husband and I are working out a way of life in community like that of Jesus’ ministry, and before we found our emergent friends we did not know how to focus the energies God had given us. Does that make sense? We are exploring how we might develop a community where we live that is reflective of Jesus’ life and ministry, not compromising truth, yet not compromising community either. It can be a bit of a balancing act, but Jesus never said it would be easy to follow Him. Quite the opposite, actually.

Theresa, that sounds awesome. I wish you the best and stand with you.

Hi Unknown (wierd name btw)
Sure, wiki is not primary.

I like the idea you propose, that community created the canon. That means conversation and dialog are built in.

However the position is now that the canon is closed so the very dialog that was there in its creation has been undermined.

I am proposing that a conversational approach is always needed, for the Kingdom of G-d to advance.

Nic,

I don’t understand. Doubt is part of the construct of the human mind. The Scriptures are touted to be the construct of God’s Mind. Why would doubt within the Scriptures be necessary? If honesty necessitates doubt then is God honest? I never heard Jesus or Paul complaining to the followers for not having enough doubt. I always viewed doubt as an echo from a yet-to-be-defined region in my understanding. I never saw it as a celebration of humanity and honesty. I never felt greater for the lack of faith. I have never felt empowered by my lack of grasping the mind of God. Honesty is a virtue that admits limitation and weakness yet it does not celebrate them. Honesty looks Jesus in the face and hears him say “neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more”. Honesty exposes my doubts and journeys beyond them in faith… a faith only to be found in God’s Word.

“But we do think truth is to be had. And it looks like Jesus.”

OMG, this is so good. Do I believe in Absolute Truth? Absolutely, and His name is Jesus. Would you like to meet Him?

I reject any image of Truth carved by humans as nothing more than Isaiah’s stick of wood. What makes the Bible what it is and keeps it alive is my taking Truth with me every time I dive into it. The whisper of the Holy Spirit in the white spaces between the black often speak louder than the words themselves. Oh how I wish I could carve what I see on a daily basis into the shape of a paragraph. Oh how I wish I could do this thought justice in such a short post.

Paul –
your approach seems a little dualistic. For me (to use your terms) the scriptures are a construct of Incarnation – where man and God meet.

I do not as you suppose, venerate doubt. I just acknowledge that it exists as a necessary opposite pole to faith.

It’s like flying – gravity and lift interact. Gravity brings us down and lift takes us up. When we find the balance, we fly. Flying by definition involves a balance between poles.

Life in the Spirit involves faith against a backdrop of doubt.

Jim –
all the best in finding that ellusive poetry.

Thanks for the article. Midst the emergent struggle to not be defined, it seems emergent thinking is being defined by WHAT EMERGENT IS NOT. What you have written works with truth in scripture, the message of Jesus, and that which experience has taught this 50 year old. Peace to you.

Thank you for this excellent article. I am grateful to have “happened” upon it!

As a church/ministry leader for about 20 something years, I’m quite tired of all the stuff.

I discovered a hunger for authenticity and intimacy with God a few years ago, and having experienced such on a regular basis, it makes the form of church sometimes so bland, even unpalatable.

We have lost many young people, and our church is not growing.

Understandably so.

But as I have traveled around talking and listening to anyone who was game, I hear the desire for God, even Jesus, everywhere.

I am amazed how people are so open to the conversation.

People do desire a genuine, meaningful experience and relationship with God, but they are so not into all the “stuff” that they grew up with or what church appears to be today.

I don’t blame them. But unfortunately, God seems to be inextricably linked to the “stuff”.

I’m a mid baby boomer, not a young thing, but I want to help bridge the gap created by the perceptions my generation has helped to create.

God has been given a bad rap – and sadly, in many ways, by people like me.

David and Maryann, thank you for your contributions to the conversation. I hope more like you can participate.

Jonathan, thanks for the post, but more important…thanks for listening to the Spirit of Jesus in you over the noise of our church structures/leaders and their approval. What a breath of fresh air from heaven here in my living room to find each of your 5 points, one after another, fanning back into flame the nearly dead embers of my heart. I must be honest. I have been fighting long and hard, and so far only reading about the “Revolutionaries” as Barna calls us from the outside. I want to be a part of a network of faithful believers who really are committed to our Lord, no matter what the cost is to return to our First Love and to a pattern handed down to us by the original apostles. I have felt like giving up my dream…a dream Father gave me to be an encouragement to everyone else in the world that not only can His body reunite in Holy Love as we see in the New Testament, but God will do it, in a beautiful, quiet way just as he did in the revolution of “The Way” in the 1st century. The East and the West will come together, not in traditional name, but at the grassroots level, with humble hearted leaders who have abandoned the pride and sin and returned to the organic example of Jesus our Lord and Paul our human example of Christ in us, the hope of glory. God gave me faith to believe in my own people in the West, that there is a remnant rising in our time (the end is near, when the gospel will be preached to all nations and the Lord will return), but right now I feel like Elijah running away from Jezebel, scared, tired, and all alone. If crows start brining me food I will really feel bad! Thanks again, and if you have advice on how to connect with this “emergent village” in a real way, even get some personal relationships going, let me know.

Jason, There are networks building organically but right now I would say they are small. Where are you?

Ms. Tickle’s book “The Great Emergence” has awakened me to the emerging church movement somewhat. An awesome read. But what troubles me is that she says “sola Scriptura” is losing its authority in the church. I hope we can reverse that trend. Nic, I agree, God is love. That is the central theme of the story. I am translating parts of the OT from Hebrew and Greek and like to focus on the narrative parts because I find God talking to me there. I also love the poetry but it is very hard to translate! Hope we can agree that it would be something other than Christianity if we remove Scripture as our guide, keeping us pointed in the right direction.