Samir Selmanovic - Courage

Samir rocks the house once again. Thank you for a talk thick with meaning, power and challenge. This is a great conversation-starter. Keep it coming!

Samir suggests that, as Christians, we wonder “what if there’s nothing there”. He is speaking for unbelievers like himself and the emergent “community”. As for me, “I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.” (2 Timothy 1:12)Emphasis on the word KNOW. Good Lord, get saved and stop living in angst and torment!

Samir does a great job of explaining prophecy by showing that prophetic claims are not a foretelling or “knowing” of the future. Instead, prophetic critique of the empire found in Revelation as well as the Old Testament phrophets, is about their own CURRENT social/economic situation when these texts were written. Imagery about the future is used to paint a picture of what “might” happen if the current situation is continuing on its present course.

I also appreciated his take on our “fallen systems” which he says are in fact still redeemable and all of us have a responsibility to salvage these systems. It is NOT something God is going to fix without us and it is not something we should “ignore just because we think God will destroy it all one day”.

thanks again Samir!

Samir’s extraordianry sermons on “COURAGE” and “FINDING GOD IN THE OTHER” are among the most electrifying I have ever heard.

Just when I thought it was safe to wade in church waters again, I hear provocative, dangerous, challenging and paradigm shifting ideas that give hope and meaning to the very idea of Faith and Hope.

It’s OK to be human. It’s OK to have doubts and it’s OK to be flawed.

Like Persian rugs with a built in design flaw, our imperfection reveals to us that which is perfect. Like the sacred patterns on the majestic rugs, the intentional flaw enables the spirit of the blanket to express itself in the universe. This way the blanket never truly ends.

May the spirit of Samir’s awesome sermons spread and ripple in the world of our collective consciousness.

Finally, someone is saying what must be said. Let us join this caravan of hope.

The thing that I was most concerned with about Samir’s sermon was his interpretation of Mathew 5:38-42. I think that this text is summed up by, “Do not resist the one who is wicked.” Samir quoted this and then spent the rest of his time to interprete this text to mean that Jesus was really suggestng that we resist the one who is wicked simply by more indirect means: Forcing our opponents to see us as equals and trying to get Roman soldiers in trouble as a method of revenge. Christ, in stead, preached against revenge and suggested that we give good and forget the evil done to us. Just as God has forgiven his people from our sinful assaults against him and his will, and he has blessed us exceedingly – far above what our deeds ought to merit from him.

Sorry, I meant to add this on my first comment concerning David’s post and also to all the anti-emergent church Christians who post on this site.
Don’t be so rude as to accuse the emergent community as not being saved. And you should never attempt to evangelize by an imperitive, “Good Lord, get saved and stop living in angst and torment!”
Christ said, “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore, be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.” Mathew 10:16
You don’t have to sacrifice innocence for shrewdness, I would encourage you to try to do both.

Post 4 demonstrates perfectly what I have said about the emergent “conversation” all along. It strives to be the “punk rock” of Christianity, frightening and offending the “safe” traditions. This is childish and silly and more than a little demonic.. I have heard many emergent leaders say they are glad to offend and clearly take delight in doing so. The gospel has always been an offense to the world…what the emergents seek to do is offend the fundamentalists who really believe the Bible is the literal, understandable word of God. It is just that and we must believe it or reject it. What the emergents should be blasting is what it apes the most: the apostate abomination known as the Catholic Church.

I can’t understand where anyone ever got the idea of corporate prayer. I certainly do not find corporate in my Bible. Corporate means ’ belonging to a corporation’ and corporation means ‘a business firm whose articles of incorporation have been approved in some state’. The Word certainly does not teach us to operate as some sort of a business.

Of course there is a place for relational and covenant prayer and that is what Matthew 18:15-20 speaks about. Prayer is supposed to be a life-style of communication with God. It becomes so natural that even when you fellowship with ‘life-minded’ people it flows forth naturally as part of the fellowship because we live in an unbroken fellowship with our Savior. It is certainly not like a ‘grocery list’, which you have to check off after ‘praying in beautiful and elaborate’ language.

For me I pray without ceasing. Meaning, I communicate with Him whenever. But I also find times to ‘lock in’ with Him. Sometimes the best place for me to ‘lock in’ with Him is in the shower. I have heard His voice the most clearest there. And because I have a lifestyle of fellowshipping with God, when I fellowship with loved ones with whom I am in covenant and walk in a relationship with, the prayer of agreement between the ‘two or three’ becomes natural.

David,
I think I understand where you’re coming from. Much of the EC seems to be acting amicably toward those who believe in terrible, ungodly, and unbiblical doctrines. They should defintely be more careful about with whom they openly affiliate themselves. Samir’s statements in “Finding God in the other” make it sound as though the affiliates might even include those outside of Christianity. Eventually, the EC will grow beyond Christian boundaries and this is when it will cease to be a Christian organization. You have to understand the EC’s intent is to collaborate with others (perhaps even non-Christians) in order to achieve their practical goals (social improvements and perhaps more). It is the common goal that groups these people, not their faith – which of course is going to eventually include all kinds faith and people.

Ravi Philemon,
The word corporate in ‘corporate prayer’ refers to a body – a body of believers. Otherwise known as the Church. The Church in the Bible prays corporately (as one body) many times. A specific reference that comes to mind is Nehemiah 9 (almost the whole chapter is a prayer). Furthermore, in Acts 4: specifically about verse 23 the believers of the Church pray together. I think these are examples of what ‘corporate prayer’ means. I agree with your feelings about the way that its treated, but as a concept and practice it is biblical.

Jeremiah,
I find the messages much more dangerous than that. They seem to suggest that everyone is fine in whatever belief system they are in now. Also that (in the message about Finding God in the Other) that we can learn something about God from witches and other pagans. They know NOTHING! Paul’s Mars Hill discourse was not a “sharing” experience, it was his attempt to tell them the ONE truth and renounce dead workls and dumb idols. Social improvement is fine but blurring the lines is not. Example: The Evangelicals and Catholics Together accord. By the way, I don’t go to church anymore either because they all seem to twist the scriptures. I am constantly in the Word, though, which is the true revelation.

Although I am, what you folks call “a believer in unbelievable things” I enjoyed both of Samir’s sermons very much. There is so much to love and to laugh and to passionately disagree with. A great addition and balance to my traditional beliefs!

The discussions here seem to fall very much along the usual modern vs. traditional lines, though.

BOOOORING!

Hi Jeremiah,

I still cannot find the word ‘corporate’ in the Word. Nehemiah 9 was the prayer of a group of people who shared a common destiny because of covenant and Acts 4:23, says ”...they went to their own companions…” People they had a relationship with, again covenant. Wherever we may see, prayer, both in the OT and the NT, prayer was a lifestyle. Both when they were just by themselves or when they came together to fellowship with one another. It certainly was so different from the ‘grocery list’ type of prayer meetings that we have in many chruches today. Again, I am not against two or three (or more) coming together in His Name. But the individual first has got to have a lifesyle of communicating with God. Prayer cannot be coaxed, faked or used as a symbol of spirituality. God is not honored by that.

Ravi Philemon,

Sorry. I thought you were refering to a community of prayer rather than the ‘grocery list’ attitude we apply to corporate prayer.
Prayer is defintely a spiritual discipline and a life style. I recently attended a conference sponsored by heartcrymissionary.org that was about prayer. I don’t know if they still have stuff posted, but they might. It was for 2006 in November.
I just checked. Here is the specific URL: http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=11&Itemid=127
The understanding I have for prayer has increased because of my increased understanding of my dependency on God.

Sorry for the really long line. And sorry, its heartcrymissionary.com, not .org. If you have trouble go to my blog.

The Covenant Community

The old is a shadow of the new. The new is always better than the old. The Old Testament Temple was built out of living stones. It was not build with bricks and held together with tar or cement, like the pyramids. The living stones in the Temple was cut and chiseled in such a manner that one stone fitted with another.

In the New Covenant, we are the Temple of God. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and 1 Corinthians 6:19 confirms this fact. Christ is the living stone of this Temple and He is the foundation stone, the cornerstone and the capstone. 1 Peter 2:4-5, says that we ‘like’ the living stone are being built into a spiritual house (Temple). There is no place for any artificiality like programs or projects, to hold His people together in the new spiritual house that God is building. People of God in the New, come together because of covenant and relationships formed with one another.

I had a dream some time ago. In the dream I saw a beautiful traditional church building, with stain glass windows, with carved doors and standing ever so big and magnificient. This church building was standing in the valley, next to a huge montain. On top of the mountain was another much smaller building. It was a very strange building. It was a building made out of people. People standing next to each other and one on top of the other. Suddenly a Hand comes out of the Heavens and rolls this small building of people down the huge mountain. As the building of people rolls down the huge mountain, more and more people gets enjoined to this building and it grows bigger and bigger in size. In no time, it grows to be bigger than the traditional church in the valley. This building of people rolls down the huge mountain and smashes the traditional church in the valley. The building of people does not stop there but keeps rolling on and on.

Such a time is coming. The Hand of the Lord has started a movement. Luke 12:32 says, ‘Fear not little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the Kingdom’. As this movement of little flock rolls down the mountain, it draws many unto it and eventually smashes the traditional.

Why the little flock? Because prophecy has got to be fulfilled. Jeremiah 50:45 says that the little flock will draw out Babylon make her habitation desolate. The nations have gotten drunk with the filth and evils of Babylon. The Lord cries to His people, ‘Come out of Babylon!’ The little flock is the prophecy of God who will expose Babylon and set His people free.

Hi Jeremiah,

Thanks for the link. I will check it out.

Oh dear- what a strange set of posts.

I loved this podcast- and like many, disagreed with quite a bit. Samir’s last one (Finding God in the Other) has troubled me and my friends for weeks-but has got us thinking and talking and looking again at the Bible. That, i assume, was the point of having it on this website.

It seems to me that some of you guys just want to ‘have a go’, as they say over in Glasgow (Jeremiah- thanks so much for your voice of graciousness)

I am fine with debate- but the stuff about Catholics has no place here friends. I am from a culture (Ireland and West of Scotland) that has had too much of that. Whenever a doctrine allows us to treat other people of faith (Even other Christians) as less than human, demonic, then it seems to me that it has lost all legitimacy.

Stop looking at the margins of your bible where you made notes and look at the broad brush strokes friends- Jesus and the Samaritans for example?

One final thought- on doubt. I believe that facing doubt needs courage- loads of it. It is much easier to deny this, to hide away behind a fixed set of ideas and teaching. I know this friends, because I have done it! Doubt is part of faith- we believe in what we can not see as an act of will. Pauls comments on “Know what I have believeth” is a statement of resounding faith- does this meanhe never doubted, never felt his hope being chipped away? I would suggest to you that these wilderness moments or seasons, are one of the ways that the Spirit of God reaches for us.

faith is a fragile fecund thing, that needs the application of the Holy Spirit, and the feeding of scripture, and the commonality of friends. It is not a blunderbus to blow away heretics in the name of Jayzuus.

I listened to both of Samir’s casts and loved them. I wish more people would listen to them. How can you say you have never seen God in the other? -Have you never met someone who professes not to be chrisitan yet they behave in a more christian manner than many christians? Saying God is not in the other is limiting the power and work of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. how can you say that the Bible is literal?We have come far beyond that understanding, the Bible is made up of many genres, it is poetic, song, parable, story, myth and history. You say that you think God is a sovereign God – meaning what? all powerful, all knowing??? What about free will? And if you really do believe that God is all powerful how can you limit God’s power by saying God only works in those who choose to call themselves christian? You say you “know” my question who told you or taught you what you think you know?

David, I got your note about comment spam. I quickly added a captcha to the comment preview. Let me know how this works. I don’t want to slow down commenting for non-spammers. So please ping me ASAP if you notice that comments have been negatively impacted by this.