A Molten Meditation on Matthew 6

For me, the meditation would be much more effective if the music were in the background and the words in the foreground rather than vice-a-versa. I find that same deficiency in much of today’s contemporary Christian music. I believe that the excellence of much of The Vineyard’s music comes from observing that discipline.

Thanks for your comments Don – a large amount of file compression goes into producing a podcast feed and this has the effect of flatening out the dynamic range of the piece. So, what was lower in the mix is brought up in volume to match what was up front. The music was not intended to be merely a backdrop to the words but instead shares an equal importance, giving an opportunity to get lost in the music between the words, enjoying the space, riding the music. Something like that anyway :)

Thank you. This helped me.

This is the most demonic noise I’ve ever heard. We are not supposed to go into a trance and empty ourselves. We are supposed to “be sober and vigilant”

It’s not about being emptied, it’s about being filled.

Filled with what? This is Eastern mysticism, plain and simple.

I’m not sure that it’s quite that plain or simple my friend. The reading, re-reading, repeating and contemplation of scripture has been part of the christian tradition for hundreds of years. These meditations are designed to fill the mind with scripture while relaxing the soul and giving the body a time out of the everyday. I’m struggling to understand how you come to believe that it’s eastern mysticism (other than that christianity came from the east and is certainly mysterious – but that’s another discussion). Is it the style of music you dislike, or maybe the biblical context – dunno? I’m sorry you found it so negative. Many people have told me they find it helpful and worshipful. Can i send you the whole CD so that you can sample the scope of the musical styles and content before dismissing it completely as the work of the devil? You can contact me direct through the website linked to my name.

Thank you for the kind offer. Sincerely. However, that music drives me nuts. I like to read the whole counsel of God, not meditate on a verse. Y’know, like Jesus said, vain repetition, babbling like pagans. I also want to say once more that the scriptures are clear, regardless of what Brian McLaren says. This is last days apostasy, my friend. get out while you can. Thanks again.

Such a man never has a cold heart or a slack hand who is much in meditation with his Lord Jesus; his heart comes to be like a mass of molten lead, and ere long he verifies the experience of the Psalmist, and can make my text his own. “Then spake I with my tongue,” He cannot help it, for this lava will soon be running over in burning hot words; and if this man should be a preacher, he will preach with holy power; his heart being hot, his words will burn their way into his hearers’ hearts. – Charles Spurgeon. You can read this great theologian and preachers sermon on meditation here – http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/bstudy/meditate.htm

Spurgeon was wonderful. Have you read some of his sayings about the papacy? The EC seems to want to link hands with the Catholic church in spite of the fact that it is (in the words of Luther, Spurgeon,etc) the “very seat of Antichrist”

I want to link hands with everyone and i’m yet to meet a wise man who wasn’t flawed. What i don’t understand is how you say you prefer the whole counsel of the bible and then dismiss me with half a verse – a verse that used out of context, like you’ve used it, is better applied, perhaps, to the Charismatic movement. Then, depending on your definition of “repetition” (every second, minute, hour, day?) also condems all litugy based churches to my fate (now that you’ve added the Catholics to the pile heaven sounds like a pretty lonely place) If you take Matthew 6 into context you’ll see that Jesus was talking about hypocracy in prayer – so i dont see the connection to meditation. Meditation on scripture is mentioned dozens of times depending on translation and also uses words such as “ponder”, “dwell”, “contemplate” often as an instruction. The scriptures are indeed clear – unfortunatly how we choose to use them is often very foggy.

Well, y’know…narrow gate, few that find it, many will say to me “Lord, Lord”...I’m not making this stuff up. Take up the whole “exclusivity” objection with Jesus.

Oh i see – so what assurance do you have of inclusion?

That I trust in the atoning death of Christ as payment for my sins. That I trust ONLY in this payment and not any added works, though real saving faith will produce good works. The word of God is clear, understandable and true. I shudder to think of Brian McLaren meeting Jesus face to face after having asked a “moratorium” of 5 years to figure out what we should think about something God has made explicitly clear in His word (homosexuality). Emergents treat the scriptures with utter contempt, trying to turn them into a hippie manifesto of niceness instead of trembling at the revealed word and obeying it as to faith and humility. All our righteousness is as filthy rags…without faith it is impossible to please Him. I urge you to rely solely on the clear teaching of scripture. If you believed the scriptures, you would understand that Catholics are idolaters and therefore excluded from the kingdom of God. Especially the ones who aren’t ignorant peasants like most are.

God loves us mate – he loves us so much that he sent his son to die for us so that whoever believes, whether smart, stupid, rich, poor, catholic, jew, muslim, gay, american, palestinion or even evangelical will have ever lasting life in him. I believe the scriptures mate, rely on them, i even spend time in meditation on his promises (you should listen to my molten meditations sometime – a really helpful way of absorbing gods word). The problem is that you see judgement, wrath and anger whereas i see love, forgiveness, unity and the awesome grace of god. So, i urge you not to concentrate on the exclusions and instead show gods love to the everyone you meet and invite them in to his kingdom. God bless you and thanks for taking an interest in my walk with god.

Scripture is scripture, set to music (i like the music) or not.

ok, so here’s a question: “God is love” we know from the Scriptures. You offer a sampling of those whom He loves: “smart, stupid, rich, poor, catholic, jew, muslim, gay, american, palestinion”; now a muslim who “believes” is no longer a muslim if he belives; but what about the rest of the muslims (and other groups you mention as well as the whole world) who never hear/believe; does the God of love reject them? If yes, wow! if not, upon what basis are they a part of His community?

Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply – been moving house!

I think we are on very shaky ground when we try to impose limits upon the love of god. If you look at the simpicity of John 3:16 gods love is all encompassing, there’s no exclusion here – and whoever believes will not perish – there are no qualifiers here either, no mention of baptism, race, culture, communion, putting your hand up at a evangelistic rally, speaking in tongues or any other holy benchmark. I can’t answer your question about those that don’t hear but my own completely unfounded belief is that when we get to meet jesus we’ll either recognise the love of god or we won’t and i don’t believe that has anything to do with the way we see it or try to define it on this earth. God knows our hearts – let’s try not to kid ourselves that we can be the judge of the heart of any other person.

On a side track – if a Muslim becomes a christian do they have to adopt a “western” livestyle or can they remain true to their culture and history renewed by the love of christ?

Yes, Christianity has tended to claim ownership of the role of judge—or of outward signs that can be measured so that we can put everyone into the “right” group— something I am sure will be shown for what it is at some point: God alone reserves to Himself the role of judge.

As for the Muslim, Western culture is certainly no prerequisite to being a believer and, in fact, free from the legalism (by that I mean the tendency to view existence in legal terms) inherited from Western civilization, would likely be much closer to a view embraced by Jesus than those living under Western presupps. As for remaining true to their culture, every culture is full of injustices and skewed points of view that must be (slowly) shed in order to take on a Biblical perspective.

To be straightforward, I read Romans 5.17-19 to mean what it says: that ALL men were justified by Jesus’ one righteous act: Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus etc, etc without regard to religious confession; keeping in mind that each one of us will still be judged by the Judge for what we did with what we were given.

One more comment, it is amazing that a verse (John 3.16) that was intended to communicate the love of God to the world has somehow been twisted into, “I’ve got good news, you’re going to hell unless you do thus and so”.

Robin you crazy Brit! you think Jesus loves everybody don’t you. Just how big do you think this mansion in the sky is anyway…

Really good stuff Robin. I found it very relaxing and was able to focus on the meaning of the scripture. Which is very difficult in my noisy busy life.

Nic from theooze.